並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep045-%E9%96%92%E8%81%8A-%E8%AA%8D%E8%AD%98%E5%B1%8F%E6%9D%B1%E5%82%91%E5%87%BA%E6%BC%94%E8%97%9D%E5%9C%98%E9%9A%8A-ft-%E5%B1%8F%E6%9D%B1%E7%B8%A3%E6%94%BF%E5%BA%9C%E6%96%87%E5%8C%96%E8%99%95/id1558393843?i=1000539617134